As the game drew closer to the end of chapter four, I realized that there was a problem. Usually I stick closely to my original outline for the game, but in this case I didn't think the outline for the chapter four finale is up to the quality I want for TLS. So I found myself taking a step back and trying to see how I could rework the game so that the same events occur in a better way overall. I'm generally confident in the foundation that's already been laid, but the next update will need to set up things I'm uncertain about.
I recognized that this was going to delay me, and I don't like to be inactive, so I decided to take some time to try to clear my plate of side projects while I thought about TLS. That included a very large chunk of work on Once Ever After, which is now in a decent place to set on the backburner. It will also include a public demo of Don't Save the Princess that will be free for everyone (look forward to it before too long).
Basically, I hope to finish major stages of these things, then return to TLS with new energy once I'm completely confident in the plan. But meanwhile, there has been a potentially exciting development!
As I've said many times in comments, I had come to doubt that I would ever be able to find an artist who was willing to commit to a project as large as TLS and who had a style that fit the game. However, for some time I have been talking to a long time fan of the game who wanted to offer their art. I've been discussing it with patrons, but now I'm letting all of you know too!
The above is just an image I commissioned for fun, but there is a current Patreon thread with another scene meant to be representative of the style used for the game. We are discussing many details about what exact style of art to use, how certain characters should be drawn, and what types of art are highest priority.
Anyway, this conversation will continue for a while! No matter what is decided, you can count on me trying to make TLS the best game it can be and making it available here for everyone. Thanks for caring about my stories. ^-^
Hurray! CG will be a great contextualizing factor. By chance will the patreon be used to aid with the artistry commission?
ReplyDeleteCommissioning such a massive amount of art would be impossible without the Patreon, yeah.
DeleteIf the art style is similar to the one above (I cannot check it, had to let my patron status lapse for a few months), then I think it would be perfect. Many, many games are ruined by poor art that detracts from the overall quality of the game, which I would hate to see happen here. In terms of the part 4 finale, I'm excited about where you choose to go even if I dislike some parts of the story that have developed so far.
ReplyDeleteCompletely unrelated to the last opinion, I think the game would be greatly served by the option to kill Kalant and seduce Tyna.
The art in the above post is the same artist, but for the game we're testing a less painterly and more soft-shaded approach. That's one of the things being discussed, of course.
DeleteAh, I'm curious as to how the results look with that kind of approach. Hopefully I can resub soon and participate.
DeleteIf you want to put CG in, you might as well give an option if the player want to see it or not. TLS biggest traits for me is it can be play even in public, so I want to keep it that way.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, this will definitely be a feature.
Deletenormally i would welcome visual art with open arms and ........ MIND MÅAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! but seriously the writing and base facial expressions were so good that i prefer such way (first time in my life)
ReplyDeletenow there is some visual art comming and i feel weird about it (my mind is ruined with adoration for lack of visual scenes)
" the best game it can be" it already is but i hope that you will go after all powers to create ultimate harem and (unnofficial) world domination
as for " Don't Save the Princess" my motto is "slay the princess to save the dragon"
When you roll this out, will animations be something you can toggle? I sometimes play this game on a train and obviously naked pictures would make that harder.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, this will definitely be a feature. No animations, though.
DeleteIs that artist working for free or does he do it just because of the publicity? I don't want to be disrespectful, but even I drew better when I was a kid. The proportions are awful, I think a game as TLS deserves better art to match the quality of the story and writing.
ReplyDeleteI'm commissioning them - I wouldn't make an artist work for exposure.
DeleteI'm sorry you feel that way about the art, but I don't agree. I am in theory open to other artists, but I don't think there are many who are both willing and a good fit for this project.
I think the art is pretty good (at least it's better than what I can do), but I do agree about the proportions. Simon look like a giant.
ReplyDeleteAh, if you mean comparing character sizes, this one was done prior to establishing references for all the characters.
DeleteIs that more Nalili I smell~?
ReplyDeleteNot immediately, but definitely!
DeleteAre you adding cg scenes right from the beginning or from this chapter onwards ?
ReplyDeleteThe goal is to have art for the entire game, but it doesn't necessarily make sense to start from the beginning and work chronologically. This is one of the things being discussed.
DeleteAlso, while I think about it, will the empty space below Wendis and Qum (where the previous access to the teleportation room was) be used for anyhting ? Because in a castle whose main purpose is military and where every space is used, it feels weird to leave a space that large vacant.
ReplyDeleteI do have something in mind for it, but I admit it looks odd.
DeleteI really wonder what kind of story-plots you are thinking about right now. I would like to help, but then you would need to spill your thoughts to a random fan of your series, which, does not work ... sooooo here random suggestions without any context I know of:
ReplyDelete- One fight against a incubus King could be a trick, you battle him normally, but it turns out that was a fake projection of his power, with the real one rampaging your camp in the same time, or even staying underground for some time to return for the sake of doing real fishy shit.
- The devine claw could stay grey-scale towards you for an painfully long time. Maybe even acting out against the player sooner or later depending on the actions the player took and takes.
- Maybe connected to a period of time where you can reely prepare for war-efforts maybe you have a limited amout of weeks and enemies undercut your efforts or shorten the prep-time depending on descissions you made and maybe even a pureely randomised factor that noone can control.
- A action scene on a train or Llama is nessecairy, I think. Or on a airship or giant bird.
- Robots with swords?
- Sexy Robots / Golems with swords?
- A rift between Wendis and Simon that can be varied but not prevented by the players actions. It gets resolved ery late into the game - providing a constant threat to the players endeavors and gives a relatable tension to simons character
- A section in which the player can do nothing at all and everything that happens in a relevant part of the game will only be covered by the harem, and how well they do it comes from their RP
- A recovery programm for confused chosens integrating them back into society, or just into the order of silence .. I dunno XD
- Sexy Robots with feelings and swords on giant birds?
- An economic crisis caused by one of the gods, decreasing some profits fron the investments.
- An reignition of nationalism and rascism in the countries as a following up from the economic crisis.
- Some crraazy twists - including maybe some sexy birdriding robots with feelings and swords
You are welcome :) XD
Haha, thanks for your enthusiasm! To be clear, it's less that I'm struggling to think of what should happen next and more that I'm trying to figure out how several things should happen simultaneously. Structure them one way and things will seem rushed, structure them another way and it won't be a very climactic ending to the chapter. We are at Point A and I know Point D, but B and C are tricky.
DeleteRight on! Good luck and have fun!
DeleteAnd remember the action scene on a Llama XD
You never know when you need it. ( imagine Ralke on a war Llama :D)
does the next update will take longer than usual ?
ReplyDeleteYeah - I tried to outline that in the first part of the post.
DeleteI don't know if it's the right place to post this, but whatever. Some small bugs I noticed.
ReplyDeleteMegail's route, in Eustrin
- if the trickster bounty was never read, the trickster has the wrong face
- the redhaired dwarf with whom she's talking has the wrong face when he says 'Nice doing business with you!' (multiple instances in the event)
Orgasmic palace, 2F, bottom left room, the clock can't be used to check days
This is a fine place to report bugs, thanks! I will try to get these fixed by the next release.
DeleteBy the way, in Rodak, you recently added a captured succubus in the Incubus Emperor's chambers after the succubus hunt. She refers to the new Incubus in Arclent as the "Doom King", which may be a bit anachronistic. No one else calls him that at the Gathering AFAIK.
DeleteOh, good point. This is what happens when I make changes so far back...
DeleteDoes that plot problem explain the delay from last release to this point, or announce a new delay from now on? (or both?)
ReplyDeleteThe former. I can't say I'm 100% happy with my plan going forward, but I've knocked out all the side goals I took on. The DStP work will go public once I get some more assets from other people, but otherwise I'm done with those things for the near future.
DeleteTake your time, the best quality usually comes out from the ones that took their time polishing it
ReplyDeletePlus the fact you are working with 2 other games is a very heavy job. Commendable but take a big break when needed
Looking forward to CGs and all with extra details in the story (if I read it correctly)
I appreciate your support, but believe me, no one wants TLS progress more than I do.
DeletePraise God! Artwork on TLS! Congratulations Sierra Lee. I hope this deal can bear good fruits.
ReplyDeleteBY the way, I downloaded the game on steam and replayed it until chapter 4. I loved what I saw until there, but chapter 4 look blank. I mean, I see no reason for exploring that pseudo world worth the risk, as I see no reason for Valla to join the team, and introduce a new mechanic (castle customization) so late in the game was stupid. The thing with customization is to look around trying to find teh furniture and things like that, I think this mechanic doesn't improve the game in nothing and just took your time making it. I didn't really proceeded forward, since I had played for many hours and the game became slow with you trying to find your harem, other thing It shouldn't be done. You should have rush a new objective to Simon go after, like a movement of the other kings or things like that. After so long and great chapter finale, I just didn't had the interest to proceed.
I mean, think well. Chapter 1 ends with you making the plan of taking Yihilin, Chapter 2 ends with you preparing to take yihilin, and Chapter three ends with you taking Inccubus emperor down. This is an ending of game, not chapter, chapter must end with something for you to look forward. Now you give the sense of completion at the end of chapter three and I really didn't have the interest to try chapter 4, nothing was pulling me.
Well, that's it. I know you can't go back and change this becasue the game is too big, and would probably need the players to restart everything. But I beg of you, once the game is completed, try to address these minor points. This could make the game so better.
I'm sorry that you feel so negative about the elements of chapter four. The open world has gotten a mixed reception, but the base customization was quite popular with supporters and I ended up putting additional time into it because people kept requesting more.
DeleteAs for player motivation, that was the intent of the interstitial scene: the Fucklord is the new antagonist for the new chapter.
Maybe it's because I played it straight from the begining until chapter 4, so I didn't have patience to learn a new mechanic by this point. But if I had to look, each chapter looks like it's own game and are only together to keep your choices. The scene with Fuck Lord didn't work for me, it looked as a mistery, but it also looked too distant for me to care. An invasion, or the Empress uncovering a plot to invade Yihilin just as the crisis rise in Ardohein (I'm assuming things here based on the walkthrough, I didn't actualy went there) this would be a cliffhanging far better to keep playing. Right now (for me), Simon only knows he will need to face the kings eventually and that trip to that world is a form of preparation. Very vague, no real sense of threat. Maybe when you are play a little each month you could keep going, but from the begining... I don't know, but didn't work for me.
DeleteAnyway, Good luck.
I actually had an opposite reaction, I would have rathered we spent a bit more time as a split party shaping the world, to me it's really one of the things that sets TLS apart. That being the girls all have they own individual goals and dreams that they believe as important and can work fow on there own, while it all still works in tandem to the larger goal of the group. It really makes them feel REAL. At least to me. THey work with Simon not just because he has a magic cock, but also because they all share different goals of making a better world. It's sets them leaugues ahead of the standard NSFW harem girl which is you know... a pretty looking caricature that exist for the MC to fuck . A girl who drops there entire life and dreams the second his dick touches them, staying glued to his hip 24/7.
DeleteI mean like, Lynine helping the succubus nation rebuild while living her own dream of experiencing true succubus culture first hand. That's great!
Carina working with Saria and spending more time with her church was good, because personally I felt even with the circumstances she left all ties with them and joined with Simon too quickly. So it's good to see her go back for a bit. Plus the fact that it really goes to show she isn't staying with Simon because of those initial forced circumstances. She has had a year to think and live fully with the church and she still happily returns to Simons's side. There's real love there.
Uyae, living a cult like sheltered life didn't have to rely on Simon to see the world. She went out and explored it all on her own!
And best of all was Nalili who the once spoiled rotten princess (no offense) was working as a leader helping rebuild the nations as well. Character growth is my fetish!
Honestly I would love a short chapter 3.5 where each girl was given a short story in there time rebuilding the world but I understand that's probably a tall order!
And as for the problem of pacing I think I have to agree against you again. Don't get me wrong the five hour long stretch of gameplay that was the 3rd war is my absolute favorite part of the game even counting chapter 4. (I even keep a save of it to play when ever I get bored.)
DeleteBut back to the point, just because nothing in chapter 4 has matched the 3rd war (yet) doesn't mean it is bad. In fact it's actually good! No matter how 'intense' game play is, it will grow stale if kept up too long. I mean can you imagine if the Incubus king's body wasn't even cold and BAM The fucklord AND the LustLord attack! Audiences responded well to fighting one King so now you fighting 2 should be twice the fun! And then the moment you stop that threat! BAM BAM Demons and Angels attack no time to question why! And them the second you defeat them, BAM BAM BAM Yhilin is having it's fourth coup of the week Shit here comes another coup!
Stuff like that would get irritating real fast. I mean what would even be the drive of 'saving the world' if the second you do BAM you gotta save it again and again and again!
Think of it like sex. You don't want a boner that lasts 10 hours straight, or to immediately go into hardcore pounding after you cum going flacid, you're dicks too sensitive man! After you finish you want to smoke that nice victory cigarette, get a drink of water, and have some lazy pillow talk with your partner.
TLS is a long 60 epic, meaning it can't take the same 3 act structure a 2 hour movie has, one that naturally ends after the big peak and climax of the story.
The 3rd war was the biggest climax of the story yet, how could it not be, but since the story doesn't end there it would be wrong to try to draw that climax out past it's natural point or try to force and immediate separate climax right after.
The after war rebuilding and investment is our victory cigarette,
exploring the new nations and seeing the harem grow as people over the last year was our pillow talk....and the FL battle was the kiss to tell us it's time to get ready for round two!
Sorry if that went on long, just wanted to get my thoughts on the matter. I hope you'll give chapter 4 another chance and wish you the best regardless!
I understand the concept of expectation curve. And you must have some calm moments to increase the tension of the climaxes moments. And by all means, have time skipping with girls doing what they want, not that many of them actually joined Simon to make the world better. But with no real objective ahead after so many hours playing, it really didn't pull you into keep seeing anymore. We gonna have to agree to disagree here.
DeleteFair enough.
DeleteI also got the same impression at first, but thinking about it, it was because the HQ music is way too calm. It's almost a post-game, happy ending, "enjoy your harem and the stuff you conquered" music.
DeletePeople are always going to have varying reactions to the game. I'm disappointed when it doesn't work for people, but I'm also glad when people enjoy it as intended.
Delete>Character growth is my fetish!
Haha, I should have included it in the content list. ^-^
>Honestly I would love a short chapter 3.5 where each girl was given a short story in there time rebuilding the world but I understand that's probably a tall order!
In the game I think that would slow down the pacing too much, but I wouldn't be opposed to potentially exploring that period of time in some other medium, like a short story.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI like the pic, but honestly, if we just had CGs of some of the more pivotal scenes, like Kai's party being defeated by the Succubi, or Simon triggering the magic circle when they met Yarra, or Simon's reunion with Robin. Things like that would be amazing.
ReplyDeletePatrons have overwhelmingly been requested SFW CGs. Though I want to get a solid foundation of scenes for the game, you can definitely count on seeing some scenes along those lines.
DeleteI think SFW CG would be cool for some of the scenes in the game if you can afford to get them.
DeleteMy only concern is that I feel some of the more intense cutscenes in the game could be harmed by having CG, scenes like Yarra resisting the Incubus King and the reveal of the crypt in Wynn's house are better for being fast and raw with the characters' responses, I feel that interrupting these cutscenes to load a static image could take the edge off them.
Personally, I'd keep SFW CG to the calmer and more comtemplative cutscenes, like Robin's hug, Janine's wedding, the battlefield aftermath during the conquest of Yhilin (which I have personally always associated with the main menu's art).
On the subject of SFW though, I don't know what's your endgame for Vhala, but if she's gonna remain asexual until the end, have you considered giving her some mock h-scenes? You write and present them in the same way you would with any other h-scene in the game, except nothing sexual happens in them, its just Simon and Vhala enjoying each other's company to some friendly activity, like a card game or stargazing.
I think it would be a neat thing to add to the game and would fit well considering some of Simon's concerns regarding his powers.
Yeah, there are some scenes that I think stand pretty well in their current form, so I wouldn't be throwing CGs absolutely everywhere.
DeleteRegarding Vhala - while I've already used that trick with Qum, I've considered it for her too. There's also something a little different that you might enjoy. ^-^
Hello Sierra, I'm wondering if you could update the characters' status in the party, having summaries of their past at the bottom, as well as maybe some title of job class or something like that. Though, the status summary and job class could change after significant events. I think it would be good, except if you think the affection titles are already enough.
ReplyDeleteThis idea isn't a bad one, but it'd take a large chunk of my time to find an appropriate script and write out a ton of summaries. Right now I want to prioritize my work on 0.42.0.
DeleteAlso, when will Ralke evolve ? (That sound so much like Pokemon XD)
ReplyDeleteBelieve it or not, I've had the dialogue for his scene written since the beginning of chapter four! I'm just saving it for the right moment...
DeleteAlso what about Ralph (the request board guy) will he ever meet his Orc counterpart?
DeleteThis is the opposite: I think it's a funny idea but I haven't figured out how I want the conversation to go.
DeleteI'm wondering if Simon have improved enough with the shadow tendrils to use them in battle ? And regarding that matter, it been said many times that Simon could retrain as a mage but that it would be difficult for him. Given that his ennemies are growing stronger, can he not "pick up" a little ?
ReplyDeleteHe could retrain as a mage, but he'd never be as good as the mages of the party, so it would be duplicating abilities. Simon is putting effort into his control of the shard and ability to control multiple bodies.
DeleteAs for using those abilities in battle... I could make it work in terms of the lore, but I'm not sure how much effect it can/should have on party balance.
Maybe bind or whip the ennemies ? Or help the party dodge ?
DeleteYou could add a 100 lust ability which lets Simon cast a clone of himself which in game terms gives him two actions per turn.
DeletePerhaps poison the enneies ? Few people in the party can poison, so...
DeleteI'd say an AoE attack with a chance to affect status, and it's balanced by the cost
DeleteAll possible, but I'll have to think about it.
DeleteI'm also wondering, when will Simon get a custom sword ? Maybe like all the Incubus stuff that we get, but usable ? And about custom equipment, I strongly agree with the idea of someone on the blog : Qum need a Simon plushie ^^
ReplyDeleteEventually, but that's all I'll say. And the plushie idea is cute, but we'll see. =P
DeleteI'm replaying to pass the time, and I was wondering : in the Gathering, when Ginasta is introduced, where is the Incubus King ?
ReplyDeleteTo be perfectly honest, I don't remember. Either he's not doing anything in particular or there's a throwaway line somewhere about him sulking or getting distracted.
DeleteI may be wrong but I remember him getting a good score and Iris commenting on that, so he was probably participating in the orgy off-screen while ignoring the contest.
DeleteBug report in the Gathering :
ReplyDelete- The Glass Lady doesn't return to her position after talking (keeps looking right)
- If you spam conversation at the end of the timer in Succubus Hunt, it doesn't trigger the next scene
- In the conversation with the Bloodlord bodyguard, Yarra asks about the roaming fortress before the guard tell that it's mobile
The roaming fortress is mentioned when the Bloodlord is first introduced.
DeleteThanks for the reports! But sorry, which Glass Lady?
DeleteThe Succubus Hunt bug... trying to do that event has been a mess from the beginning. I'm not sure what else can be done to improve it.
I guess he's talking about Estaven's concubine. Qum refers to her as "Glass Lady", and she indeed is bugged that way.
DeleteYeah, we never did learn her name, so how else could I call her ?
ReplyDeleteI looked over the event logic and I'm not 100% sure what the issue would be, but I've added a turn command that might help. Thanks for the report!
DeleteIt's been awhile since I last played TLS so I'll have to give it a go as for the art work I love the art style in the picture in this thread and I'd like to see this kind of art work.
ReplyDeleteThank you and your team for your hard work in making this classy game.
You're welcome! Whenever you decide to come back to TLS, there should be a lot more available for you!
DeleteYou know, we never did go back to the Dark Ruin from chapter 2. Did we all just forget that there's some perfectly good miniboss-tier animated dragon statues waiting for us there?
ReplyDeleteI want those things guarding my throne room, damnit!
Sorry, but I'm going to have to say the site was destroyed in the war... because those animated statues won't fit into the statue system in the base.
DeleteDamn... I was hoping that they'd at least be used SOMEHOW, even if it wasn't in the base system. It was implied pretty heavily when we acquired them that they'd be useful to us down the line, and you don't usually tease things like that unless you have some kind of payoff planned.
DeleteI dunno, it just seems like such a waste to write the whole thing off like that. Maybe a blurb somewhere at the beginning of CH4 about them guarding the entrance? We never actually go out there, and it wouldn't really change things from a game mechanics standpoint seeing as getting them in CH2 is unmissable and therefore wouldn't really count towards any of the base's stats, in the same manner that the walls don't despite being a fundamental aspect of the defenses. You could even have them as fixed sentinels in the currently unseen lower levels of the prison/dungeon, as additional security against prisoners who are too powerful for the orcs to handle on their own. So many options, though some are obviously easier to implement than others.
...This comment was only meant to be two sentences long, how the hell did it turn into a multi-paragraph exposé of my thought process and/or hopes & dreams?
There was also an old succubus religious text in the crypt, and Simon said that he'd like to check it out later. I was a bit disappointed that it never came up again.
DeleteHmm. That artstyle reminds me of the ones used in Overwhored.
ReplyDeleteSame artist?
Not the same artist.
DeleteIf you didn't know what that game was, think of it this way:
ReplyDeleteIf TLS is Slime Tensei, then Overwhored is Overlord.
Quick question tho I think you might have answered it earlier, if so sorry. If you add pics for multiple scenes are you also considering adding them for the whole game start to finish or is it only for the next chapters?
ReplyDeleteIf I add pictures, I want them for the whole game. On Patreon we've discussed exact plans for how to best integrate them into the game, but it would likely be a mix of old and new scenes.
DeleteI am glad to hear it, I do look forward to revisiting the old content with more than a mental image to go with it.
DeleteI know the post is old,but take as much time as you need for the updates.Personally,I would prefer something polished rather than something rushed.I like the desicion to include some art into the game and the art as shown above looks pretty.
ReplyDeleteQuestion-I am about to finish reading New Game Minus and I must say I love it.I finished reading the first book and now I am close to finishing the second book.I would like to ask you if and when the 3rd book will be available on Amazon,because reading on Kindle is very enjoyable at least for me.
I really appreciate everyone being understanding, but believe me when I say I want this update more than anyone. TLS has been and remains a joy to create.
DeleteGlad to hear you enjoyed NGM! The third book is fully written and a bunch of people have already read it - I would have released it already if not for problems getting cover art. Once that's done (hopefully before too long) it will go up on Amazon.
After all you are the one who spends so much time making TLS,of course you would want more than anyone else to complete it.
DeleteThank you so much for answering my question!